Council of Neighborhood Associations

August 2022

August 8, 2022 6:30pm

Present:

Melissa Allen (Bigelow Highlands, Vice Chair), Darrah Johnson (Wildwood), Dana McAvoy (East Bay), Lisa Riener (Burbank Elliott), Dave Marty (Indian Creek), Bruce Coulter (Northwest), Judy Bardin (Northwest), Charlotte Persons (Bigelow), Bob Jacobs (Governor Stevens), David Ginther, (City Planner), Tim Smith (City Planner), Cari Hornbein (Senior Planner), Larry Dzieza (Nottingham), Dontae Payne (Councilmember), Victor Minjares (South Capitol) and Karen Clemens (Eastside), Mark Toy (SWONA), and Dirk Havlak (Ken Lake).

6:30 – 7:00         Neighborhood Reports

Melissa Allen – Reported on the National Night Out (NNO) event that went wonderfully.  Good food and weather and lots of people signed up for their electronic notification system.  200 people are on that list and the block party really brings them out. 

Judy Bardin – Pop-up meeting at Food Coop on NC’s.  Lots of people out at night when things get cooler.

Bob Jacobs – Nothing to report but enjoying the weather and fighting the weeds.

Bruce Coulter – Also attended the neighborhood popup on NCs.  Was concerned about a particular person’s language regarding the city’s policy directed to a staff person who is not responsible for the policy.  Ryan Hollander and others will be taking a tour of the Triangle Project area from the perspective of neighborhood associations along with David Gintler (city staff).  They have got a new board member who was on a Board in Kansas City.  They had a work party at NW Volunteer Park and got support from the city who helped cut some of the weeds along Madison Street.

Mark Toy– Reported on their NNO.  The property on 9th and Fern changed hands and the agreement for a pocket park there is in doubt following a notice from the new owner’s lawyer saying for them to vacate the pocket park.  They are in the process of finding a new home for the concrete bench and sign.  Ryan expressed concern about the lack of outreach from the city on the Triangle project. 

Dirk Havlak (Ken Lake) – Reviewed happenings in Ken Lake.  The biggest is the July 4th event.  Music, burgers and such.  Dedicated a privately funded wildlife sculpture.  They also have a neighborhood wide yard sale and proceeds go to charity. 

Dara Johnson (Wildwood) – NNO drew over 90 people which is a good turnout.  Chalk art activity to do drawings and send the pictures and a coupon ice cream award for participating.  She will need to step down from being the chair but will remain on the board.

Karen Sweeney (Eastside) – Annual picnic last Friday and got a donation from Big Tom’s.  Roger Horn had sign-up sheet for area Talent Show in October. 

Victor Minjares – Annual party was on the 10th and they have pictures on Facebook. 

Lisa Riener (Burbank) – had annual meeting at Universalist Church and David Ginter?? Attended and presented.  Olympia police gave a presentation on the NNO. Lots of food and attendees from 5 to 9pm.           

Dave Marty (Indian Creek) – Working on picnic for September 10th. 

Larry Dzieza (Nottingham) – Getting ready for annual picnic which is in September. He sent out a notice to the neighborhood about the open house at the Habitat for Humanity project on Boulevard on September 14th. 

7:00 – 7:15         Council Liaison Report – Donte Payne

Attended the NNO at 5 different neighborhoods.  A good opportunity to hear about neighborhood issues.  A briefing is coming on the Fire Authority proposal to the council.  Lots left to discuss and decide and are very early into it.  No action will be taken regarding whether its on the ballot tomorrow. 

Rental housing code is also on the upcoming agenda.  Three key items: Limits moving costs to include nonrefundable fees and security deposits to one months’ rent; allowing installment payments for move in costs and last month’s rent; and limiting pet deposits to 25% or rent and allow payment over 3 months.  State law constrains what cities can do such as implementing rent  control.

Reimagining Public Safety effort is still underway.  The Community work group of 9 individuals who is working with city staff on focus groups is on a hiatus and Donte asked them to extend their service after he learned that the participants of their various focus groups included only three members from communities of color.  The intent is to provide time to do better outreach.  He expects recommendations will come in September to the Community Livability and Public Safety for a work session, which he chairs.  Then it will go to whole Council in October. 

Olympia Strong, the economic resiliency effort, will be completed around next Spring, maybe May.  Purpose it to identify weaknesses in the local economy.  Lots of data.  Found that the private sector in Olympia has grown exponentially between 2020 – 52%.  The public sector grew by 13%.  While public administration is still the number one employer overall things are changing.  One-third of Olympia’s population is struggling. 

Lisa Riener observed that there has been a lack of trust among the public about having meaningful two-way conversations with the Council but we need to keep trying. 

Bob Jacobs asked for a clarification regarding security deposits payments.  Donte said that the security deposit has to be paid upfront and that the three-month stretched out payments was only for pet deposits.

Judy Bardin said she took part in the survey for rentals and observed that it did not distinguish between the small landlord with a few units versus large units and corporate ownership or with property managers in-between the tenants and the building owners.  Donte says that 5 properties or less is considered small landlords.   

7:15 – 7:40         Update on Neighborhood Centers – Cari Hornbein

Cari Hornbein presented the background, current status and future course for the effort to get Neighborhood Centers in more of Olympia.  The effort began 2014, got sidetracked for awhile but is now moving forward again.  A consultant team was hired to help implement the vision contained in the comprehensive plan which is to create small, walkable, transit friendly nodes around Olympia neighborhoods.

Cari presented the time line:

It was recognized the sidewalks and bike paths contribute to success of neighborhood centers. Market conditions have not been conducive to creating new centers so they are looking at partnerships and incentives to stimulate creation of new centers. 

They are also looking at areas that are not on the current map and may be should be. 

When people took the online survey and in the pop-up meetings convenience was important.  Parks and other civic attractions, transit also were elements that people thought were important.

Getting pros and cons for density but overall more support for more infill housing and variety of types within a quarter or half mile from the NC. 

Some input that they don’t feel safe in some places. 

Was surprised to learn about 26th/Friendly Grove and Eastside’s interest in getting a NC.

Judy Bardin commented that there was a lot of confusion at the pop-up she attended about the how large the area would the zoning changes be looked at.  The report talked about a quarter mile but the survey asked about a half mile around the NC.  And you, Cari, talked about a half mile radius. 

Judy also asked who designed the survey questions because they were constructed in a leading to a certain result, i.e., biased? 

Also, it felt that the neighborhoods were brought in after the market analysis not before or during. 

Cari responded regarding the scale of NC’s. 

She thanked Judy because there is an opportunity for the consultants to clarify this.  The core area is where the uses are and infill development and additional commercial or parks.  And then there is half mile ring pedestrian zone.  The half mile is not where the zoning changes would be.  Judy interjected that Cari just said the half mile would be where zoning changes will be considered and the survey question talks about allowing 3-4 story apartment buildings within a quarter and half mile.  I keep hearing two different versions and its very confusing. 

Cari says that Makers authored the survey.  It is not statistically valid and questions were not intended to be leading. Judy interjected that you are still drawing inferences about what people wanted and you would need a statistically valid and random respondent selected survey.  Tim and Cari said that the cost would be up to 10 times higher for a statistically valid survey.  Judy said that you are presenting it as saying this is what people want (with the heading “what we are hearing, major themes”). 

Cari said that this process is not recommending any zoning changes.  That will happen down the road if that what the final strategy recommends. 

Larry showed a survey question about support for or against allowing….

and pointed out that a wide variety of housing types are already allowed, except for the 3-4 story apartments.  Further it implies that supporting changes to low density residential within a half mile will result in “vibrancy and affordability” which not always the case.  If this is about an effort to create support for more density, then say that is your policy intent.  It’s a question framed in a way that says if you want affordability, you need to say yes to greater density and zoning changes.  Cari agreed that Housing Options does currently allow a variety of housing options in single family neighborhoods. 

Mark Toy asked about the Division Harrison area makes more sense than the Westside Coop.  He also observed that he sees no health element.  Such as a neighborhood clinic. Cari replied that bigger cities are doing that and its something the consultants brought up that is a use that she be allowed.  She said she wasn’t sure that a medical use is allowed in residential zoned areas.  Mark replied that he wasn’t talking about medical but rather well child clinic, preventative care clinic, nutrition, outreach workers.  Cari asked for examples.  She said the one that pops into her mind is the UW who tried a clinic on Lily Road that they eventually closed.  She said that they are looking at things like that.  Mark recommended the book, “The Betrayal of Trust” relevant to the topic.  Mark asked if the City has a stance on this?  Cari said yes, healthy neighborhoods. 

Dontae said that community health clinics are something to definitely mull upon and its something that people need in their daily lives and that’s what NCs are about…services where they live so they don’t need to travel.

Karen Clements Sweeney why not has anything happened on the Eastside?  Karen said that they were involved early in the NC process and spoke with the Leland group back in 2014.  Karen said it was probably not included on the map because likely at the time the staff was looking at specific criteria like transit, was it near some interesting commercial uses or potential development for commercial uses.  Getting ready for the update of the Comp Plan, Cari said, we should revisit the criteria for NCs.  Karen pointed out that it was part of the Eastsides sub-area plan and there is plenty of transit and commercial activity and several candidates for NC locations, including the Swantown Inn, the Left Bank Bakery new location etc.  Karen says it’s a pretty glaring oversight.  She also agrees the survey has leading questions.

Bob Jacobs expressed skepticism about the use of neighborhood centers.  He hardly uses the one near him.  Will we get real numbers?  The survey is not producing facts and seems more about a planner’s theory and we need to seem numbers, not just big ideas. 

Bruce said that the Westside Coop and the San Francisco Street Bakery were considered a success by the consultants and are places where neighbors congregate.  A place where people like to go and meet. 

Dontae said that NCs are part of the Comp Plan and are important for the city’s climate goals.  Getting basic essentials near where you live is goal. 

Lisa said that walkable neighborhoods are important and her neighborhood has asked for years and we passed a tax for sidewalks what has happened to all that money?  We have GRUB which is considered a school and there is no sidewalk along Elliott.  Some have said it will take a kid to die before we get our sidewalk. 

7:40 – 8:15         Discussion of Major City Issues – Everybody


  • Bruce and Ryan Hollander will be meeting for a tour of the area along with staff led by David Ginther.

    Larry pointed out that Ken Lake drainage is an issue in a West Olympia Access project relevant to the Triangle project on ramps and offramps for the development.  David Ginther said that the project is many years away and funding is not yet available for construction.
  • Application, table Description automatically generatedRegional Fire Authority and Impact on Property Assessments
    Larry presented information on the financing of the proposed Regional Fire Authority (RFA).  Larry explained that part of the funding is a formula that begins with the square root of the square footage of structures. 

    Larry pointed out from his spreadsheet how regressive the tax is. 

Larry also showed how apartments are disadvantaged.  Larry said he contacted the council and city manager about his concerns.  He also asked why would the city use a formula based on how much water can be delivered to a square foot of a structure when only 2% of our fire department’s calls are for fires?  Most are emergency medical services. 

Lisa asked for a copy of the analysis to be sent to the CNA. 

Victor humorously pointed out that this is WA state and isn’t a requirement that all taxes be as regressive as possible? 

Larry also pointed out how much of an increase the RFA would increase, over 40% in the first year and 92% over the budget period. 

Bob Jacobs pointed out that he has tried to follow this in JOLT and the Olympian.  Everything is about the cost and the charges but not what one would expect to see in terms of changes in services for which there is big cost increases.  The why is missing.  Larry said he heard that there were some statements about maintaining services and competing for available dollars in the future.  But, Larry said that Olympia is a highly rated fire department, as good as any in the state and shares a Class 2 rating with Seattle for example.  Response time could be faster but there were no statements that said it would result in that benefit.  Mark suggested savings from removing duplicative services.  Larry said there were no cost savings identified.  In fact, 9 overhead positions are being added to make up for the overhead services provided by the cities of Tumwater and Olympia and all existing employees are guaranteed their job.  Melissa said she would expect the city staff would review Larry’s numbers and get feedback.  Did you get a response back?  Larry said yes, he has been in contact and talking with them about it.  There are two questions, the regressive formula and Bob’s question, what do you get for it?  Particularly, what does Olympia get for it, its obviously a better deal for Tumwater who is a Class 4 fire department.

Victor asked if there was a premium in the formula for high rises.  Larry said no.  Victor hypothesized that it was to pay for the high rises of many floors.  Larry said no and in fact the bigger building example of over 100,000 s/f which is most likely a high rise, pays on 7 cents a square foot while a 5,000 s/f building would pay 30 cents a square foot.  Victor said there should be no confusion, the little guy pays more.  Larry says his confusion is that he hears a lot about equity concerns from the city council and a regressive tax does violation to equity concerns. 

Lisa asked how Dontae feels about it?  Dontae says its still very early on in this process and they are being brought up to speed on it.  Dontae said that regional growth and maintaining the level of service requires thinking about this.  Dontae raised the issue of basic life support performance and we have given the private responders 60 days to meet the standard.  Dontae said that this is the first time he has heard about the regressive nature of the formula.  He said if there is merit to Larry’s points he and others are open to working on it.  He also pointed out it will take a 60% vote. 

Melissa said that this issue is similar to other CNA issues where a planner and a consultant make a recommendation and we react.  We get so soothing words and then the city does what it wants to anyway. 

Bob said he was surprised to hear Dontae talk about growth driving the need for an RFA.  What happened to the concept that growth should pay for growth?  That’s why we have impact and hookup fees.  Shouldn’t we be looking to charge the developers who are making money on it? 

Dontae said that equipment is an issue too. 

Larry pointed out there would be a $4 million budget windfall to Olympia under the proposal.  So there are advantages to the city budget and maybe fire fighters but how does it work out for the rate payers? 

  • Bruce reported that the project is having to revisit their SEPA as its in court.  Tim added that the Shoreline permit is being reviewed by the city as well and is being revised.  The developer has six months to do it.

  • . 
    Larry posted links and a video that contains a useful discussion about it.  The link is below.  Larry said his take was that there is little interest in stopping the 8-year tax breaks for market rate housing.  Judy added that the state now allows a 20-year exemption that guarantees affordability for 99 years.  Affordable is 80% of area median income.  Bob said that the consultants claimed that it stimulated housing but that is different than the JLARC report which did not find it.  Bob said they said the consultants said it helps us compete with other cities for development. But if we are not getting growth to pay for growth, why are we doing that?  Better that Tumwater and Lacey have the growth and Olympia would be better off for it budgetarily.  When developers get tax breaks, what happens to the rest of us? Do we get better services or less? 


8:15 – 8:25         Technology Improvement Proposal and Neighborhood Grants – Larry &  Dave Marty

Dave Marty discussed a contact he made with Emily Journey who could provide personalized WordPress training for the RNAs, in-person and/or remote.  A little pricey but take 2-3 neighborhoods and do a train the trainer event over two days and customize it for RNA’s and create templates.  Four hours a day for two days.  Dave recommends in-person. 

8:25 – 8:30         Minutes Approval and Agenda Ideas

Bob Jacobs recommended approving the minutes with the names of the attendees added.  It was approved.

Tim Report

Four follow-ups.

  1. Bob’s point about lack of signs in Briggs.  They are private streets and the city is in conversation with developer to get those signs.
  2. Judy asked about Franklin Street mitigation site.  Workforce housing is being worked on.  Darian Lightfoot (70-90% of AMI).  City will not be selling the site.  Use the property to increase housing, similar to Unity Commons.
  3. Judy also asked about city mapping on website.  City IT is trying to link the mapping with their permit system.
  4. Larry asked how far along are we in providing for our 20 year housing target.  They are working on targets.  Tim displayed the following:

20,000 units is the base number of units.  Tim said that the problem in Olympia is a lack of land which means you need to build up and in-fill. 

8:30                      Adjourn

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